The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: harry on December 03, 2020, 07:06:44 pm

Title: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 03, 2020, 07:06:44 pm
Had an email today. I must house my poultry in the next few days. I have four free range geese enclosed in a 1acre field by electric fence. used as lawnmowers and egg layers. I suppose I now have to kill them, these are isolated from human contact.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: twizzel on December 03, 2020, 07:19:47 pm
You don’t need to kill them. But you do need to either keep them in a covered pen or inside in a stable or similar. Easiest way is to build a walk in enclosure and cover it with fine netting.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Anke on December 04, 2020, 10:01:26 am
Have you got a polytunnel or similar? Would be a shame to kill them simply because of the (probably quite low) threat of a non-pathogenic (to humans) strain of bird flu.



Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Richmond on December 04, 2020, 11:41:05 am
I believe the situation with waterfowl is that as long as their water and feed cannot be accessed by wild birds they can stay outside. Supervise feeding times and remove all containers afterwards.
The birds' welfare is paramount and if shutting them in will stress them unduly (which it will with ducks/geese) then they should stay out.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 04, 2020, 01:30:06 pm
Richmond. Where did you read your interpretation of the rules cos that’s the only way for me other than killing they are fenced free range access to stream that I could close off and supplement feed this time of year due to poor quality of grass. I can supervise feed session and have a dripping hose for water but a bird proof enclosure is a non starter. How long does this go on. No cases in Norfolk I think. Don’t think closing access to stream will make any difference as it’s running water.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 04, 2020, 01:45:18 pm
We too are hoping that this year's rules include that water birds do not have to be locked in, for their welfare. It went on until spring the year before last (was it?)
We shut our hens in the polytunnel for the whole of that winter - it's fairly large and they were happy as sandboys.  Rats were a problem inevitably, and our winter brassicas were destroyed.  The geese we walked to the veggie garden, which is fenced, each morning, and back to their house each night, minimal fuss, no wild bird incursions.
Just like Norfolk (I used to live there) here in Scotland we have no cases so far, but we do have a lot of migrating birds.  We feed our wild birds in the front garden, to which our poultry has no access.  I judge the water fowl risk by the number of splats on the polytunnel - only a couple in 25 years, as their usual route is along the river, down in the valley.
Last time, people made make-shift enclosures of any materials they had, the most important bit being to cover the top to keep out contaminants, or they adapted other sheds (maybe a garden shed and make a wire mesh pen for grazing).  Usually there are enough bits of wood and so on which can be repurposed to make your enclosure. Four geese are not many to make provision for - think of all the free range Christmas turkeys which will suddenly have to be housed for a couple of weeks.


I'm sure further guidance will follow, meanwhile, unless you want to eat your geese for Christmas anyway, spend the time constructing a temporary enclosure for them.  Ours are pets and they will survive!   
                       Above all - DON'T PANIC  8)
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Richmond on December 04, 2020, 04:58:08 pm
Richmond. Where did you read your interpretation of the rules cos that’s the only way for me other than killing they are fenced free range access to stream that I could close off and supplement feed this time of year due to poor quality of grass. I can supervise feed session and have a dripping hose for water but a bird proof enclosure is a non starter. How long does this go on. No cases in Norfolk I think. Don’t think closing access to stream will make any difference as it’s running water.

During the last bout of bird flu the chief vet for DEFRA said (at some point into the lockdown) that if certain birds were likely to get unduly stressed by housing eg waterfowl then they could be allowed outside for supervised bathing and feeding, so I can't see why it should be any different this time round.

If your stream is used by wild waterfowl then this may be a problem Harry, also any ponds, as they would be used by wild birds also, but you could put a paddling pool within an enclosure and fill it with clean water prior to each use.  My geese are outside too although I shut my ducks into a stable overnight. However they would go stir crazy if I kept them in there all day as well - they are pretty desperate to get out each morning as it is!




Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 04, 2020, 05:15:25 pm
[this is the email and it says ALL BIRDS. Anyone knows how much and adult emden  needs to maintain health with no grass. table]
Due to the risk of avian influenza, new housing measures to protect poultry and captive birds will come into force on 14 December (https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://5) in England, Scotland and Wales. It will be a legal requirement for all bird keepers to keep their birds indoors and to follow strict biosecurity measures. More at GOV.?UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-influenza-bird-flu-national-prevention-zone-declared (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-influenza-bird-flu-national-prevention-zone-declared), GOV.SCOT: https://www.gov.scot/news/new-housing-measures-to-protect-poultry-and-captive-birds-against-avian-flu/ (https://www.gov.scot/news/new-housing-measures-to-protect-poultry-and-captive-birds-against-avian-flu/) and GOV.WALES: https://gov.wales/new-housing-measures-protect-poultry-and-captive-birds-against-avian-flu (https://gov.wales/new-housing-measures-protect-poultry-and-captive-birds-against-avian-flu)
[/t][/t]
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 04, 2020, 10:29:27 pm
Indoors means under cover so that no wild birds can get in or drop their poo in.  Do they need running water? Can they not use a child's paddling pool for a short time(mine cost £10) ?  Could you buy a large tarpaulin (they are only a few pounds) and attach it to a run of some sort.  That is what I've done and my four wyandottes will be in a run with the tarp over it. Their water will be in the middle where it cannot be accessed by any other birds.  My quail are in a shed anyway

Surely restricting your birds area is preferable to them dying?
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Womble on December 04, 2020, 11:20:18 pm
To be fair, the advice is somewhat contradictory:

Quote
it will be a legal requirement for all bird keepers to keep their birds indoors and to follow strict biosecurity measures in order to limit the spread of and eradicate the disease.

But it then goes on to say

Quote
Poultry and captive bird keepers are advised to be vigilant for any signs of disease in their birds and any wild birds, and seek prompt advice from their vet if they have any concerns. They can help prevent avian flu by maintaining good biosecurity on their premises, including: housing or netting all poultry and captive birds

* cleansing and disinfecting clothing, footwear, equipment and vehicles before and after contact with poultry and captive birds – if practical, use disposable protective clothing
* reducing the movement of people, vehicles or equipment to and from areas where poultry and captive birds are kept, to minimise contamination from manure, slurry and other products, and using effective vermin control.
* thoroughly cleaning and disinfecting housing at the end of a production cycle
* keeping fresh disinfectant at the right concentration at all points where people should use it, such as farm entrances and before entering poultry and captive bird housing or enclosures
* minimising direct and indirect contact between poultry and captive birds and wild birds, including making sure all feed and water is not accessible to wild birds

So I don't think it's as black and white as "all birds must be housed". Different people will be able to comply to different degrees also. I for one, have no idea yet what we're going to do this time around. Last time was just desperate - we did what we could by providing a covered run, but they were absolutely miserable, and it went on for months.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Perris on December 05, 2020, 09:28:43 am
my reading is like Richmond's and Womble's, and if you follow the links in that email Harry, and read what's said there, you will find it is not nearly as categorical. It points out there that the standard bird welfare rules still apply (as do planning regs!) and states “Whether you keep just a few birds or thousands, from 14 December onwards you will be legally required to keep your birds indoors, or take appropriate steps to keep them separate from wild birds” and "minimising direct and indirect contact between poultry and captive birds and wild birds, including making sure all feed and water is not accessible to wild birds". If you do your best to meet these requirements, you will be fine.
BTW, a case in Norfolk is reported this morning, I'm sorry to say.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 05, 2020, 09:48:48 am
Had an email today. I must house my poultry in the next few days. I have four free range geese enclosed in a 1acre field by electric fence. used as lawnmowers and egg layers. I suppose I now have to kill them, these are isolated from human contact.
So there you are [member=2132]harry[/member] - no need to kill your birds
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Possum on December 05, 2020, 06:32:20 pm
Scaffolders netting is lengthy, cheap and easily available on-line. It has a fine mesh so is good for covering feeding and bathing areas so that wild birds cannot gain access.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Womble on December 05, 2020, 10:16:29 pm
..... it does also hold snow though, so if you use it, be careful of that.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 06, 2020, 11:16:34 am
The problem is some replies are getting mixed up with hens and geese. It’s easy to bird proof a few hens. Confining  4 or more adult geese is not the same. The large enough enclosure I was thinking 12mt x 4mt  needs to be portable as the ground will be contaminated  after a couple of days. The stress on geese that have been free range and lived by grazing for 4 years will cause problems as this could go on till March. Keeping feed separate from wild birds, do many wild birds eat grass, so if my geese still free range feed should not be a problem. I give them a scoop of pellets this time of year, all gone in 5 mins, water in a bucket maybe a few inches below the top so birds can’t access. I think I have then covered the drink and feed section. Big sign near gate NO ENTRY BIOSECURITY. Hope that would suggest I tried my best, but housing or netting is not an option for me or the geese welfare. Keep fingers crossed and hope I don’t get a gov visit. Nearest outbreak near me is 10 mile away. Gov does a 10 kl observation zone from an outbreak. Outbreaks mainly in turkey sheds so problem may go after Xmas.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 06, 2020, 12:00:55 pm
The problem is some replies are getting mixed up with hens and geese. It’s easy to bird proof a few hens. Confining  4 or more adult geese is not the same. The large enough enclosure I was thinking 12mt x 4mt  needs to be portable as the ground will be contaminated  after a couple of days. The stress on geese that have been free range and lived by grazing for 4 years will cause problems as this could go on till March.
With respect, it is not a lot different.  I had to do it last year with my ducks, which I think would create the same problems as geese except that they need grass. They are such mucky things!  :'(   It's a bit more work.  You need to clean your flooring up every day.  It takes time, and I can understand if you have other commitments it may not be possible.

I was lucky that I had a barn, and was able to obtain vinyl for the floor.  But i believe they can be left outside if netted - perhaps you could do it in strips and move regularly to prevent poaching, just ensuring that each bit of fresh ground is clean - maybe a tarp on it, that could be hosed down when moving to the next piece of ground?  Would that work?
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 06, 2020, 12:05:48 pm
I go from observations farm chickens turkeys maybe ducks etc are often mainly reared in sheds, I don’t know of any confined shed reared geese, it doesn’t work.  It’s not a bit of extra rain or sun that’s going to wipe us all out, it’s the animal viruses. Bats in China, farm animals elsewhere. Actually that raises a question. Are all poultry viruses associated with shed reared birds.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 06, 2020, 12:49:56 pm
I go from observations farm chickens turkeys maybe ducks etc are often mainly reared in sheds, I don’t know of any confined shed reared geese, it doesn’t work.  It’s not a bit of extra rain or sun that’s going to wipe us all out, it’s the human and animal viruses

It can work as a temporary measure.  It did for our geese last time.  As I said before, our geese spent the night in their house as usual, in the morning they were walked the short distance to our veg garden, which is fenced (usually against them but this time to keep them in).  There is grass in there, perhaps not as much as they had free ranging over several acres, but enough to keep them foraging, and wild birds simply don't go into that area as the fences are high and they are scared of the small area.  We feed the geese a little supplementary grain inside their house at night - as you say, gone in moments. We fill a dog paddling pool with fresh water every day for their ablutions (amazingly three geese can get in there together and still wash and preen). Our geese didn't suffer at all, I can say with confidence. The proof of our system is that we didn't get bird 'flu on our premises then.    I think you have to think laterally about your problem, or cull the birds.  What is not acceptable, especially as you are so close to outbreaks, is doing nothing and just crossing your fingers.

Given the way the Norfolk turkey industry works, it seems likely that the cases found in housed turkeys have been imported on lorries from the continent, so be very careful about your own biosecurity.  We have large red biosecurity no entry signs on our gates, but still people just walk in and say 'oh I didn't see it'  ??? So you have to be vigilant.   You must have disinfectant foot dips with a brush at every entrance, to be used both coming and going, and be very aware of where you drive and where others have driven before they come to your land.

Increasingly I am thinking that it would be better in your case to cull your geese (as long as you know how to do so properly) and replace them when the crisis is over.  You may have only four geese, but you could put other big businesses at risk, and the lives of many thousands of birds if you don't employ adequate restrictions.

I don't agree that 'it's not a bit of extra rain or sun that's going to wipe us out, it's..viruses'. Climate change is happening and if we don't do something fundamental to halt it then our Earth will simply become inhospitable to humanity.  At the moment, Earth is just flexing her muscles and shaking off a few extra humans to relieve the pressure a bit (that's Earth's point of view, not mine).
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 06, 2020, 01:08:45 pm
Yes I agree cull them all. But not what I wanted to do. My geese are essentially semi wild, how do they compare to all the wild ducks, geese we have in the Norfolk broads where I live. What difference will it make culling my 4, probably none but I will do it.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: SallyintNorth on December 06, 2020, 02:19:47 pm
Yes I agree cull them all. But not what I wanted to do. My geese are essentially semi wild, how do they compare to all the wild ducks, geese we have in the Norfolk broads where I live. What difference will it make culling my 4, probably none but I will do it.

 :hug:
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 06, 2020, 04:34:42 pm
Yes I agree cull them all. But not what I wanted to do. My geese are essentially semi wild, how do they compare to all the wild ducks, geese we have in the Norfolk broads where I live. What difference will it make culling my 4, probably none but I will do it.

The difference is that yours haven't just flown in from countries where bird 'flu is rife, so yours have minimal risk if you could come up with a method to protect them from the migrant birds.  Sad but I think that for you it might be the way to go.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harmony on December 06, 2020, 05:21:10 pm
I can understand the risk to those making a living from their birds whether they are pheasants, chickens, turkeys etc but considering all the wild birds there are I can see little point in the rest of us housing birds.


I can see little point in culling your geese to get some more to cull the next time round. I also don't think it is that difficult to make them a penned and covered area to keep the authorities happy and keep your geese. They might not like it at first but you wont know if you don't try.



Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 06, 2020, 06:23:19 pm
 I used to kill mine every December before for my own consumption, just 2-3 a year. Last time I purchased a breeding pair which I have now. I am going back to the Xmas geese again then this problem won’t arise
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 07, 2020, 12:08:43 pm
Just do what you want. I think you want to kill them anyway - maybe to make your life easier. 

Find some friends who want a goose for Christmas.

We've all given you sensible solutions for you to keep them alive but you are finding difficulties every time, So just do it.

Sorry to be blunt - not being offensive.  I'm still a WYSIWYG  :innocent:
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 07, 2020, 03:53:33 pm
Yes doganjo after investing in a breeding pair in spring last year and anticipating a good supply of fertile eggs this coming spring I do really want to kill this pair. I found someone to take them I offered them free, but they want to stick them in a pen at the bottom of the garden with their hens, not a good idea. By your own admission you have not had to confine geese and don’t know there requirements. What you do think you are good at is reading a few lines from me and speculating my reasons for my decisions, sadly you’ve got that wrong as well. I have changed my decision daily on how to not kill these birds which is the fate for 1000s of other geese this week being Xmas. I have another location to inspect as they want them. I have a week to save them. Perhaps you will take them. A shelter on my land is a non starter due to the area I live in and a covernent. As you advised I will do what I want but your comments will not be a factor in my decision as they are irrelevant. I suspect there are 1000s of poultry keepers not bothering to stick by the rules, not me,  are you? Offence taken
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 07, 2020, 05:03:18 pm
Yes my four wyandottes are covered and my quail are in a shed.  You did not mention a covenant. That does make a difference.  But I can assure you I have experience of keeping ducks inside due to avian flu and it worked fine.  Apart from geese needing grass I see no difference.  You only have four - is it very difficult?

There is another thread going on just now on the same topic.  there are useful suggestions on there too
https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=81344.msg755797;topicseen#new (https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=81344.msg755797;topicseen#new)
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 07, 2020, 05:26:45 pm
Had another thought! I occasionally do. Does anyone have experience of feeding geese with hay. I feed a supplement  of pellets in winter but I may be able to house them in an old horse trailer with bird proof netting run. That’s not a fixed structure as it has wheels, that’s allowed on my land. Geese don’t eat long grass wondered about hay bales. Had a look at the other thread but again no mention of geese, not as easy as a few hens.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Womble on December 07, 2020, 05:33:09 pm
Hmmmm, I don't think they'll eat hay, I'm afraid.

We were in a similar situation to you the last time this happened Harry, and as I posted on another thread, we decided at that the geese really weren't working out for us anyway, and stuck them in a cassoulet. So, if you decide to do that, I don't think anybody could blame you.

However, if you want to keep them, just keep them! You can make a covered area easily enough, and yes, they'll turn it to mud, but honestly, I think they'd be cool with that if they knew the alternative. If you feed them on layers pellets and the occasional cabbage, they'll manage just fine.



Just a thought, TAS hive mind: what about grass pellets?  Perhaps even pre-soaked?  Do you think geese might go for them?
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 07, 2020, 05:37:11 pm
I think they might try anything if they are hungry. Will get a bale of hay just in case they do eat it.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Anke on December 07, 2020, 05:54:02 pm
I think they might try anything if they are hungry. Will get a bale of hay just in case they do eat it.


No way hay will work, but having straw on the ground will help alleviate the mud a bit. If they are used to grain/pellets than they will eat that. Greenery - like cabbage/savoy/broccoli, maybe spinach will work should work as well. There isn't much nutrition in the grass in winter anyway.


We did the same as Womble, decided the geese weren't working for us (though it wasn't bird flu related). Shame as I loved to have them around....
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 07, 2020, 06:26:33 pm
Yes I have a grass meadow, chickens strip it bare ducks make mud geese just graze and keep the grass short. Fair amount of poo but it is just grass. No mud, very little sickness. Ideal for me.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Richmond on December 08, 2020, 09:25:01 am
Do not feed them hay, it will block their crops as it will be too long and fibrous. A combination of wheat and either grower or layer pellets will be fine, plus a bucket of sharp sand to aid gizzard function. My geese like carrots and apples too.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: lord flynn on December 11, 2020, 08:05:08 pm
A contributing factor to me deciding to get rid of my geese, was keeping them happy during the last flu lock down-there were other reasons but my Shetland geese hated being cooped up and I worried about getting enough food down them as they were not interested in much other than grass. They were in a netted pen on grass, with a rubber matted bathing area. They would eat waterfowl pellets and grain only in small amounts, they would not touch soaked grass pellets or the flaked peas I feed my muscovies. They did like apple bobbing though and would eat spring greens. Straw on the ground will give them something to forage about in but will need replacing regularly or it becomes a big, stinking mess.


Its one of those situations that you have to do it so get it done, and bear in mind that this will happen again in the future. You have a legal obligation to do it as well as a moral one.


My hens are kept in over winter, I have two sets of muscovies in a stable each, with lights and enrichment. I have another netted pen of muscovy outside and another for the miniatures.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 12, 2020, 10:17:43 am
I agree with everything you said lord, sensible suggestions from an x geese keeper. Some replies mainly from non geese keepers think you can confine geese the same way as hens, it just cannot be done while giving geese welfare. A hen can be confined in a small fine mesh coop and be happy but let’s face it hens are pretty stupid, I have kept loads but now just geese. I also wander how many geese keepers are doing anything to prevent the  virus spread. I suspect nothing at all. I had an offer to take the geese they were going to put them in a pen at the bottom of the garden with their hens, no way will I allow that, obviously never kept geese. Problem is sorted now for me no worries. Would be interested in hearing how other geese keepers have dealt with this problem, you have 2 more days to get it sorted, no problem for hen keepers, a bit of small mesh fruit net from eBay £4 stretched over your existing larger wire. In case the virus comes back every year the future for me is Xmas geese kept April to December, I only want them for grass management so if virus stays away they live on.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 12, 2020, 01:03:24 pm


Just a thought, TAS hive mind: what about grass pellets?  Perhaps even pre-soaked?  Do you think geese might go for them?


No-one has really followed this up.

Has anyone tried grass pellets for geese?  The grass ours will have during bird lockdown is limited so I thought of supplementing with grass pellets as well as all the veggie stuff and grain.  I want to keep their gut function as close to normal as possible.  I've not bought grass pellets before - is it aimed at horses?
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: lord flynn on December 12, 2020, 01:25:35 pm


Just a thought, TAS hive mind: what about grass pellets?  Perhaps even pre-soaked?  Do you think geese might go for them?


No-one has really followed this up.

Has anyone tried grass pellets for geese?  The grass ours will have during bird lockdown is limited so I thought of supplementing with grass pellets as well as all the veggie stuff and grain.  I want to keep their gut function as close to normal as possible.  I've not bought grass pellets before - is it aimed at horses?


I mentioned it in my post fleecewife, my geese (and ducks and chooks) wouldn't touch them. They are aimed at horses and just compressed grass-they need soaked imo (vital for horses) as they swell a little when soaked-although not to the extent of say, sugar beet.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 12, 2020, 02:22:48 pm
Mine have a supplement of growers to get though the winter 3/4times a week high protein most geese had it as goslings so recognise the smell. They ate layers just as well leading up to spring.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Womble on December 12, 2020, 02:50:26 pm
So since they'll eat lawyer's pellets (#typotoogoodtocorrect), I honestly don't think they'll need anything else to thrive.


I just wondered since you were concerned about the lack of grass, and contemplating hay, whether grass pellets might fill that gap.


As said before though, I'd just give them ad lib layer's pellets and then hang up cabbages and kale for them to peck at. It might not be what we'd want, but we can all only do what we can do.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: harry on December 12, 2020, 03:51:46 pm
Yes thought hay might keep them more occupied, but not a good idea. It wasn’t a shortage of grass it was being shut in from bird flu.  Bit like me I could survive on vegetables but like sausages. My 9 year old granddaughter once said she could be a vegetarian but she likes sausages to much!
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Backinwellies on December 12, 2020, 04:29:07 pm
So since they'll eat lawyer's pellets (#typotoogoodtocorrect),

 :roflanim:  :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:  no wonder they cost so much!!
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 12, 2020, 04:42:58 pm
So since they'll eat lawyer's pellets (#typotoogoodtocorrect),

 :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:  no wonder they cost so much!!

 :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: landroverroy on December 12, 2020, 09:26:11 pm



"I mentioned it in my post fleecewife, my geese (and ducks and chooks) wouldn't touch them. They are aimed at horses and just compressed grass-they need soaked imo (vital for horses) as they swell a little when soaked-although not to the extent of say, sugar beet."



If your geese are not keen on corn or pellets, Have you tried wheatgrass? IE sprouted wheat. If you let the shoots grow to @ an inch it'll look just like grass to them and they will probably eat it.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 12, 2020, 10:56:29 pm
Now that's an idea  :idea:   The early North Americans used to sprout grain to give them vitamins and minerals through the long winters (I do too for salads).  Our geese will eat normal grain, pellets, bread (which they shouldn't have) and they love apples and bush fruit (they pick them themselves) so I'm sure if their grass runs out they'll gobble sprouted seeds.  The hens would love that too.
I read somewhere else that geese will take mealworms, which are really good for them as they eat insects in their normal grazing routine.  We have those for wild birds and the hens and the geese sometimes eat them too, so we'll up their intake.  Our geese will have access to outdoors anyway so I suppose they can collect their own insects too.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: lord flynn on December 13, 2020, 09:30:01 pm
I didn't do sprouted grains with the geese, I have done it before for ducks and chickens. Its worth trying, just be sure to change water etc and not allow to grow any mould.


And just to throw this out there, it is not recommended to feed mealworms that have been raised commercially, to poultry. Commercially reared mealworms are raised on all sorts of things, including human waste and animal protein-it is actually illegal and has been since 2014 as is feeding kitchen scraps. All poultry keepers should be made aware of this. https://www.bhwt.org.uk/feeding-your-hens/ (https://www.bhwt.org.uk/feeding-your-hens/)


Aquatic insects raised in an approved ABP premises (or non EU equivalent) can be used e.g. fresh water shrimp.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Fleecewife on December 13, 2020, 11:49:49 pm
https://www.barnevelders.net/why-is-it-illegal-to-feed-mealworms-to-chickens.html (https://www.barnevelders.net/why-is-it-illegal-to-feed-mealworms-to-chickens.html)

OOOOPS!  Oh well, the wild birds can finish off the sack of mealworms over the winter before they start nesting.  We tried live mealworms for the wild birds once, because someone said there was a danger that small birds would damage chick's throats by shoving dried mealworms down. But really, a seething sack of smelly mealworms in the porch was just too much.  I'm really not sqeamish about many things, but the mealies just turned my stomach
;D


I'll just have to let the hens catch what comes into the tunnel or is already there, maybe a mouse or some beetles,  and rely on their normal food for adequate nutrition.  The geese were fine last time, so perhaps I've been overthinking what to feed them.  Thank you Lord Flynn  :) :chook:
Yes, I'll take care if I sprout wheat.  I'm used to doing it with seeds like alfalfa and mung for us, and I rinse them at least twice a day.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Perris on December 14, 2020, 05:15:10 pm
the actual reason why mealworms are banned in the UK and not in e.g. the USA is quoted in full on this webpage
https://keeping-chickens.me.uk/getting-started/rules-and-regulations/animal-by-product-regulations/
I think it was recognized soon after the ban came in that mealworms were an unintended consequence of legislation designed to stop mad cow disease (aka Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies), and a petition was launched to get it overturned, but the govt of the day (the coalition) called an election, and it was closed early. Since then there have been others things distracting people. Maybe Brexit will enable us to clear up these absurdly byzantine regulations.
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Rupert the bear on December 15, 2020, 05:00:08 pm
Its only been one day  :'(  both chickens and ducks are giving me vocal grief and the death stare.
I am going to have to sneak in while its dark to fill feeders and water and give myself a chance to get out of run first,
Suggestions please on how to keep them amused , I am going to give them a small straw bale tomorrow and see if that will keep them occupied for a while .
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: Womble on December 15, 2020, 06:18:35 pm
Try hanging up a cabbage or pieces of melon rind (etc) for them to peck at. When we first had hens who had to live in a run rather than free range, they loved that kind of thing.

Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: lord flynn on December 16, 2020, 06:00:28 pm
Its only been one day  :'(  both chickens and ducks are giving me vocal grief and the death stare.
I am going to have to sneak in while its dark to fill feeders and water and give myself a chance to get out of run first,
Suggestions please on how to keep them amused , I am going to give them a small straw bale tomorrow and see if that will keep them occupied for a while .


Mine love a hay brick (or alfalfa) hung up, keeps them occupied for about a week (10 x bantams and bantam crosses)-Halleys do them for horses. Hang up cabbages etc. My ducks like peas and you can buy large sacks of flaked peas (Mashams). Handfuls of mixed corn/seed chucked in every so often or put in the ducks water so they can dabble. Loose, long straw for them to rummage about in or flakes of hay. I've never had any issues giving hay but then also always provided them with mixed grit as well.

Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 17, 2020, 08:32:23 pm
I had planted some lettuces in tubs a few weeks ago - I'm not that keen on salad in winter so decided to put the tubs in the chicken run - oh boy, they went daft - they loved them.  But it didn't keep them occupied for long  :innocent:
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: doganjo on December 18, 2020, 05:23:44 pm
Latest from Scottish government on bird flu
Title: Re: Bird flu
Post by: lord flynn on December 18, 2020, 08:06:35 pm
there's been an outbreak in Orkney, stay vigilant everyone!