[Vickyb]

Hi
We have just purchased 3.5 acres of agricultural land in North Yorkshire that was advertised by the selling agent as suitable for mowing and grazing. It has had sheep on it. We plan to put a handful of sheep on it and use it for sheep dog training.

My question is what else can we do on the land and do we need planning permission.
For instance we are considering:-
- keeping chickens (using chicken tractors to keep them secure and move them round the field)
- growing some crops either using a dig or no dig approach
- planting some trees - native and fruit to make a copse
- put in pond and keep some ducks / geese
- put a poly tunnel up for aquaponics and crop growing
- putting in a mobile field shelter or 2 for the sheep and the sheep dog trainer to keep dry
- what about a composting toilet? (the field is 8 miles form home so a bit of a way to go if you need to go)

We have tried speaking to the council but they were not much help and ask for us to submit questions via email and we may be charged for them answering 
Any advice or to hear from your own experiences would be appreciated
Many thanks

[chrismahon]

I can't help asking "why did you buy this before you had answers to all your questions"?

[Anke]

I would have thought you can do more or less all of the above, maybe pond will need planning permission. Unless you are in National Park area, in which case probably no buildings at all.


Be aware if you do not have water on the land then carting it for 8 miles every day in summer for your polytunnel may just be impossible. Collecting rain water may be impossible if you do not have any buildings, so even for sheep you will have to be able to bring out water most days.


Tree & hedge planting is always good. Orchard?


If the land is quite far away from where you are anything that is moveable may be also be readily stolen.


And yes, given the current financial situation councils find themselves in, they will charge for everything - planning departments have always been self-financing.

[Vickyb]

I can't help asking "why did you buy this before you had answers to all your questions"?

The plan has always been tonise the land for sheep and sheep dog training. Now we have it we are wondering what else we can do. 

[Vickyb]

Thanks Anke.
We have water to the field so no need to lug more there.

Good point ref leaving equipment there. Will have to have a think about that.

[SallyintNorth]

We are in a an AONB (area of outstanding natural beauty), and we need planning permission for a polytunnel.  Genuinely mobile animal shelters don't need pp here.

Compost loo made me laugh.  You're 8 miles from anywhere, you pee in the hedge!  lol.  (Or if no hedges or walls, keep a bucket in one of the shelters, pee in that and tip it out on the land.) 

Chicken tractor might suffer fox attack, maybe ask around if there are known to be foxes in the area.  Planting trees to make a copse will make the spot more appealing to foxes, they like a bit of cover.

Ducks and geese will be subject to attack by fox and probably badger, unless it's a very big pond with an inaccessible island.  (But if it freezes over in winter, the predators will get to it then.)

Crops and sheep will necessitate good fencing.  If you haven't done livestock fencing before, check out the costs, it's not cheap.  Sheep will also decimate young trees so you'll need fencing around any woodland you create. 

All of which said, congratulations and have fun!  Have you chosen what type of sheep you will get? 

[Vickyb]

Thanks SallyintNorth
We are looking at swaledales or hebridean sheep. The field has already had sheep on it so the stock fencing is quite good but yes we will have to consider putting some in to protect crops etc.

What would be the best way to keep chickens safe from foxes?

Thanks
Vickyb

[SallyintNorth]

Fox proof mobile pens...    ...  Not sure it's even possible...  Maybe ask that specific question in Poultry & Waterfowl, see if anyone has a solution? 

Fox proof static pens, the way I know is to bury the 7' chicken net fencing at least 1' deep all the way round (the fencing netting needs to be 7' at least so there's still 6' above ground), and put 2 strands of electric wire all around the outside too (with regular maintenance and daily checks as it can short or run out of battery), and an automatic pophole to shut them in at night and let them out after daybreak.  Depending on breed, the hens may need to have the flight feathers clipped on one wing to stop them flying out of the pen. 

Both Swales and Hebs are horned both sexes, so be aware of that when thinking about fencing options.  Particularly with remote land where it could be 23 hours before a trapped sheep gets seen...   Poultry electric netting will be a no-no, unless the sheep can be kept behind another barrier, so they can't get themselves entangled in the electric netting. 

Both are fab, hardy breeds, and very tasty too - although neither are an easy choice for training young collies...  Derek Scrimgeour used to use Mule wethers for training young dogs, he found that Hebs in particular (but Swales are similar) don't flock like the more domesticated breeds. 

[chrismahon]

I wouldn't attempt to keep chickens in a distant location, no matter how fox resistant the enclosure is. It will be necessary to collect eggs twice a day to avoid them being broken- broken eggs leads to egg eating which is a very difficult habit to break. The biggest problem is going to be theft, both of the equipment and the chickens. A friend of ours even had one of his sheep stolen!

[harmony]

Thanks SallyintNorth
We are looking at swaledales or hebridean sheep. The field has already had sheep on it so the stock fencing is quite good but yes we will have to consider putting some in to protect crops etc.

What would be the best way to keep chickens safe from foxes?

Thanks
Vickyb

Many people use Hebs for dog training. They are small and hardy. With good fencing they don't try to wander. Swales lie to roam and are adept at getting out over the best fences.


I have hebs and polled sheep and don't find that the hebs get anymore stuck than the polled ones. Rarely, does any get stuck but sometimes you get one that just keeps getting stuck. Get rid. I was told multi horns would be a problem getting stuck in netting but on the odd occasion I have had one stuck it's always a two horned!


With any sheep if you only visit once a day it will be a long time before you spot something if it is ill, stuck on it's back etc Been stuck in a fence is probably the least worry timewise if it is still on it's feet and it can eat and poop.


People use hebs because they do flock. They even stay loosely as a flock at all times in a field in my experience. I have never seen hebs all over a field like other breeds. If you get something that doesn't play ball get rid. People will always have their favourite or something that didn't work for them.

[landroverroy]

Compost loo made me laugh.  You're 8 miles from anywhere, you pee in the hedge!  lol.  (Or if no hedges or walls, keep a bucket in one of the shelters, pee in that and tip it out on the land.) 

I don't think so.  . Wouldn't expect my family or visitors to do that either. What's wrong with a compost toilet and a bit of decorum. 

[Buttermilk]

You sound to want to do a lot on a small area.  Ponds and woodland will reduce the area even further.

Start with your sheep and dog training and find out how much land that is going to use before doing the other work.  You will probably need to divide the field into at least two, preferrabley three paddocks for rotational grazing.

A lot will depend on the topography of your field for how it will need dividing.

[arobwk]

Did someone mention ponds ?!  Don't bother [member=226922]Vickyb[/member] - more trouble than worth.