[pgkevet]

According to my paper that's the cost for removing pylons from beauty spots. Absurd.
I know a scrappy that'd take the pylons down for the scrap for nowt and plenty of digger drivers (or even a paddy and shovel) who would dig the trench between pylons for way less. Are they usng gold wire or just lining pockets?

[pharnorth]

Don't know if I am amused or just saddened that a day after getting a 'consultation' document on the huge array of new pylons planned for the Cumbrian coastline ( up to Seascale) I also read that 4 lines across Welsh beauty spots are being replaced with underground. No offence to the fabulous Welsh contingent in this forum but why oh why are they putting new ones overground and paying to replace other that are already up with underground?   Oh More one Bay gets underground cables though!

[hughesy]

The proposal to remove 10 pylons from the Snowdonia national park at a cost of 11million quid each is absolutely preposterous given that they are currently refusing to bury the cables from the new Wylfa power station on Anglesey despite very strong local opposition to any new pylons.

[mab]

I suspect that's the cost of installing the underground line rather than that of removing the old pylons. underground cables are more expensive, much harder to repair/upgrade than overhead, and much more prone to overheating, so they generally overspec the buried cable to reduce the likelihood of having to dig it up again.


Also, if it's going any significant distance underground (10's of Km) they may need to build a phase compensation station, as high voltage AC doesn't travel well underground; all these things do add up, which is why they prefer overhead transmission lines. Even after all that an underground line will probably be more lossy than the overhead it replaces.


high voltage underground electricity lines might be better for the nimbys, but they are the most environmentally unfriendly form of power transmission.

[pharnorth]

Well mab, it is always about economics I guess.  Two or three years back Wasdale Head was without mains power for the best part of a year (yes really) because the old cable under the lake failed and the supplier would only commission a new cable dug in alongside the road.  After many months and despite being told at the outset, they conceded you could not dig through the Rock and finally relayed the cable where it had been for 80 odd years, at the bottom of the lake.....

[Kimbo]

The HV overground cable that serves our lane failed underneath the M61 right between contracts and completion on our house. When we arrived here one of our fields was out of bounds as it had a massive diesel generator in it that was keeping the 9 houses going! Fine for all the other houses but we were down a 2 acre field. The leccy men lived with us for 5 months. I rather miss the rent they paid us!

[ramon]

Not sure why underground cables are environmently unfriendly?
I understand HVAC lines underground would increase losses but are underground cables HVDC? or can they be DC to reduce losses?

Easy to call people nimbys but with the prospect of a transmission line being developed behind my home I am worried about the resulting devaluation of my home and home environment.

[mab]

Not sure why underground cables are environmently unfriendly?
I understand HVAC lines underground would increase losses but are underground cables HVDC? or can they be DC to reduce losses?

Easy to call people nimbys but with the prospect of a transmission line being developed behind my home I am worried about the resulting devaluation of my home and home environment.

sorry - perhaps I did sound a bit harsh with the nimby comment - as it happens one of my customers is in a similar predicament with a new proposed overhead pylon setup going right past his house to the windfarm - I do sympathise, but I wanted to make the point that burying the cables isn't only about the added expense of digging them in, but an ongoing efficency hit on the grid system (hence less eco-friendly).

in regard to DC transmission - as things stand underground/underwater cables are still usually AC if it's just a short distance (<60km), as with current technology it's still expensive to convert to DC and back again to AC(cost of equipment - I'm not actually sure what the conversion efficency is THB), so only the long lines justify the cost of HVDC - all the underwater interconnectors to france, ireland, etc are HVDC. I think there's still an old AC underwater connection to one of the channel islands which is 90km long IIRC, but one day they'll convert it to DC.

Having said all that, I must confess I've not been keeping abrest of the technological developments so If someone happens to know that some of these new underground cables are going to be HVDC then I wouldn't doubt them - hopefully the cost of HVDC will come down and eventually it'll be a lot more widespread.

Well mab, it is always about economics I guess.  Two or three years back Wasdale Head was without mains power for the best part of a year (yes really) because the old cable under the lake failed and the supplier would only commission a new cable dug in alongside the road.  After many months and despite being told at the outset, they conceded you could not dig through the Rock and finally relayed the cable where it had been for 80 odd years, at the bottom of the lake.....

That doesn't surprise me  although I do wonder that they wanted to dig it in by the road rather than stick it up on poles.

[harmony]

We need more and more electricity for new homes and modern lifestyles and of course it is a commodity we can't store so there are going to be more pylons. There is plenty of work to do upgrading very old lines to prevent regular outages without replacing pylons with underground cables just because they are in a beauty spot at outrageous cost. Is it because the locals don't like them or because they discourage visitors? Or actually was everyone quite happy living with them until "someone" thought it was a good idea to remove them?


The proposed pylons from Carlisle to Heysham, some of which will be on the edge of the Lake District are causing quite a stir but not the offshore windfarm that you can see from well in land and will be in the background to some of the pylons.  Suggest a wind turbine in the Lakes and there is a huge protest. Put them out at sea close to the larger settlements and there never seems a fuss.

[ramon]

I have always avoided living near overhead power lines or pylons because they are ugly and there are possible health risks associated with living near then. (I know this is unproven but associated electricity companies are unlikely to support extensive research on this topic).

We do rely on electricity but why should one sector of the population be penalised to provide electricity for people in another part of the UK. The proposed transmission line near my home is not supplying the local area but exporting electricity to England. It is not following the line of the present transmission route but taking a new route across unspoilt countryside, mostly served by single track roads.  The new pylons at approx 164ft will be almost twice the height of the present ones.  My home is in a beautiful spot and  no, I am not happy about the prospect of this being ruined.

Harmony surely it is up to the people in the larger settlements to make their feelings known. If they do not voice any objection then they cannot complain if developments go ahead. They will be accused of nimbyism but why shouldn't you do everything you can to protect your home and chosen lifestyle.

[harmony]

I have power lines going across my land. It is how most of us where we live get our power. Granted it is by pole not pylon but they are still there.


I appreciate your concerns Ramon and yes, it is up to people to make their feelings known and yes, I'm glad it is not my decision to weigh up the pros and cons and decide the best option for these large projects.

[pgkevet]

They will be accused of nimbyism but why shouldn't you do everything you can to protect your home and chosen lifestyle.

And there is the crux of the problem. While i see it from your perspective the reality is that you do not have your own oil refinery, pharmaceutical plant, brick factory, cement works, copper mine and blast furnace...

At some point there ends up the need for a contribution to the blights that go with a modern society and if you live where power generation is practicable from tides or weather patterns then so be it and jobs for the local area too.

I longingly recall living my simple life in the marshes by the great river. Then commerce began on my waterway, the village grew and became full of wandering merchants followd by the thieves and scallywags and later coastal raiding parties. Our community lost it's roots and worse, with the travellers carrying news abroad we became a target for those Italian emprire builders with their eyesore cobbled highways encouraging more travel...... Move on 2 thousand years and soemone has built a huge dome just where i lived and filled it with loud noises and saturday revellers to something called O2. It's ruined the neighbourhood. On the other hand my cousins donlt die in childbirth or of the age ague at 25 and I still have my teeth...

[harmony]

pgkevet - to have all your teeth after thousands of years is very impressive!!! And to still look 25 whilst having seen so much - well there must be money in your secret 

[pgkevet]

The secret is free:
Joint disease prevention with electromagetic radiation from the power lines (save wearing magnets)
Disease prevention by inhaling sulphur and Nitric Oxide - just as it keeps mildew off the roses.
And my complexion is kept young by washing in acid rain.
And the preservation of ones internal organs with copious amounts of alcohol