[The Chicken Lady]

I don't understand but know the rules for sheep identification are changing. Am I right in thinking that by the end of the year we have to electronically identify sheep? I am new to keeping sheep and have only just go my head round all the paper work  My 5 ryeland ewes are due to lamb at the middle to end of next month so I am looking to buy ear tags etc. I have seen the earlier posts about ear tags but should I be looking for something else as I don't want to waste my money   

[Rosemary]

I don't THINK EID is a done deal yet. It's EU wheeze and is meeting with very strong opposition from farmers throughout the EU. The technology appears not to be reliable and with flocks of 1000 or so ewes, it's just not practicable to have individual ID.

[woollyval]

Oh its a done deal all right Look at the DEFRA website and search under electronic tagging...........makes my blood boil................

[BadgerFace]

From DEFRA

NEWS RELEASE
Ref: 17/09
Date: 28 January 2009

Nobel House, 17 Smith Square, London SW1P 3JR
Out of hours telephone 020 7270 8960
Newly negotiated sheep EID rules come into force

Farmers in England will not have to electronically tag sheep intended for slaughter before they are 12 months old when the new EU Electronic Identification (EID) rules come into force on 31 December this year, Farming Minister Jane Kennedy announced today.

Ms Kennedy said:

“We have been pressing hard in Europe for changes that will help to reduce the burden on the sheep and goat farming industry.  While we believe that the costs of the new rules still outweigh the benefits, we need to avoid the even higher costs of not complying with EU law and we’re working hard to ensure that the burden on farmers is as low as possible.

“The exemption from having to record animals that are intended for slaughter before they are a year old could save the industry between £8 million and £11 million per year – and we will continue to work with farmers to ensure that the costs of implementing the new system are as low as possible.”

The Government has already secured a number of other changes to the EID regulations which will considerably reduce the burden on farmers, including:

    * no animals have to be recorded individually on a movement document until 1 January 2011
    * no animals born before 31 January 2009 have to be recorded individually on a movement document until 31 December 2011
    * no animals born before 31 December 2009 and moving to slaughter (directly or via a market) have to be recorded individually on a movement document at all.

The Regulation that requires EID was adopted by the EU in 2003, and provided for EID to be introduced from 1 January 2008. A further two-year delay, until 31 December 2009, was secured in 2007.

Final nail in the coffin for me. Why we just sit back and let these idiots tell us what to do is beyond me !!  I shall be cutting back my flock further, and only producing a few lambs for meat only. It's just not worth the expense to enable me to sell on a few pedigree animals (for breeding) each year.

[woollyval]

Exactly Badgerface......

I also may well throw in the towel....after a whole life of smallholding.........sad day but the cost of the reader etc will be prohibitive for a small flock unless you have money to burn which we do not!

[kanisha]

how much do they cost do you have any details of where to get hold of one?

[rustyme]

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/07/468

This is a couple of years old , but maybe gives an idea of costs...

cheers


Russ

[kaz]

We just had a catalogue through the post from Daltons the tag people and their electronic readers start from about £700 and the tags are about £1 each or less. We have decided that we will buy the tags, but why buy the reader, will rely on the printed info. Just can't do anything else. Why let the bureaucrats  take over farming, while they are sitting in their nice warm offices. What do they know?

[kanisha]

thanks for that but i don't see the frequency of the scanner i already have three scanners for various chip frequencies for reading dog chips they are inexpensive to buy; the costs come in buying multi frenquency scanner or or those with  a broad range ie to read from a distance; in most cases working with sheep this is unlikely to be necessary a hand held  chip reader can cost as little as 45 pounds or less i would be interested to know the standard required for the scanning frequency as there is an ISO standard for dog chips.
nasty ploys by chip companies include encrypting their chips so only their scanner can read them hence three scanners although these days after 20 years things are improving i was one of the first to get my dogs chipped in the UK still got the press cutting somewhere! change is a pain in the arse but like it or not its going to happen 

[kanisha]

right i've done some digging this is what I came up with the australians sheep chips are using the ISO standard
(ISO11784/11785, AS5018/5019) 
 LF 134.2 kHz R taken from a website i can find nothing to say what the eu directive says!

dogs and cats for the puposes of the UK pet passport scheme need scanners that read  The micro-chip should comply with ISO standard 11784 or Annex A to ISO standard 11785

equines currently use chips that are read at a frequency of This date forward, the ISO/ANSI compatible FRID chip (11784/85, 134.2 kHz)

now i'm not that bright but me thinks they all look fairly similar. so maybe someone should check things out to confirm and if possible try out a sheep tag with a dog scanner i'm thinking they would work second hand scanners can be found all over the place from the companies direct or e bay ...........but before you buy DO check everything out i have three scanners for one reason not all scanners read all chips and in theory they are all ISO standard. when you order your tags check out the companies first and ask LOADS ofsquestions or you may be stuck with tags you can't read. and if you follow dog rules you never put in a tag ( chip) unless you've read it first they sometime s come out of the factory defective..................

[kanisha]

http://www.shearwell.co.uk/electronicID/default.asp

click on the link at the bottom of the page the PDF file confirms the ISO standard and also basically the costs quoted are for selling in software and date input packages  I can't see any need for them but if someone knows legally any different please let me know basically you should be able to by a dog scanner and read your sheeps chips you won' t need it for much more than that as far as I can see

[VSS]

We have decided that we will buy the tags, but why buy the reader, will rely on the printed info. Just can't do anything else.

Kaz you are quite right - you do not need a reader. The rule states that breeding stock need to have one electronocally readable tag and another ordinary tag. You can use the printed information - if you have small numbers of sheep it will not be a terrible hardship to read the printed eartag number ( remember that each individual sheep will need to be listed on movement licenses.

The people who will really suffer under this one will be medium sized flocks where they struggle to justify the cost of a reader, but move sufficient numbers of sheep for it to be very difficult to list them all individually with out using a reader.

The really daft thing is that if someone put their minds to it, mobile phones carry the technolgy to read the eid tags already - it just needs to be harnessed.

[woollyval]

The thing is that if you breed pedigree livestock I think it will be necessary, and also I feel that buyers of pedigree livestock will prefer a stomach bolus rather than an ear tag too......and that WILL need a reader so that identity can be proven.....I am fully aware that it is those mid size farms selling a lot of breeding stock that are going to find it most problematic BUT DEFRA assumes that it will not be necessaty for meat producers therefore giving the single non electronic tag option for under 12 months.......HOWEVER what of those who producers who sell store lambs to enter the market as hogs? What of those who have slow maturing breeds that are usually killed in their 2nd year such as Shetlands and other primitives. What of mutton..........I don't want to be depressive but it is yet another job to do, and another expense!

I also know that a lot of people would much rather sheep were microchipped like dogs and cats,or bolused and tags totally done away with as cruel.........I have read lengthy documents about this and the possibility of a chip being eaten accidentally!!!

For my part I feel another nail going into a coffin! Those who are amazing stockpeople but who are illiterate or otherwise challenged with reading and numbers are already struggling and I know at least 2 who are giving up totally bacause of the 'nail'

[kaz]

What makes you laugh is the fact that all of my scrapie monitered stock have bolbuses so can be identified by that.