Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: New Terminal Sire?  (Read 20184 times)

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
    • photos
New Terminal Sire?
« on: September 17, 2011, 05:55:34 pm »
Next Friday I am going to the tup sale at Ashford Market, I need a terminal sire to produce nice meat lambs for next years crop, our ewes are a mixture of suffolks x romneys, romneys, and romney x texels may I ask what would your choice of terminal sire be? I am moving towards a charollais as I believe it has sweeter meat, the lambs are lively at birth and grow fast, and the lambs have slimmer bone structure for easier lambing as stated on the charollais website !! I am not sure of there temprement either?

at the sale there will be mainly texels and charollais with some Lleyn and the odd Bleu de Maine and some suffolk tups   alot of choice !!!

any tips?

andy
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 08:35:27 pm »
Choice of a ram breed is a very individual thing, depends on what you intend to do with the lamb, where and how you sell, what is popular locally how fast and what weights you require, sorry more questions and no answers ???   . CHAROLLAIS  are good good workers,lively lambs good suckers and grow fast weighing heavy for their size, temprement of any animal is down to the keeper if you are quiet and calm the animal will be as well :thumbsup:

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
    • photos
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 08:55:00 pm »
I sell locally, whole lamb butchered by the local butcher who boxes and labells the joints and delivered by me, so i send them off when they reach 40kg approx, I want tender and very tasty meat so my customers want to remain on my list for the following year, at the same time as I have to lamb outside im aware that I need as easy lambing as possable and the lambs to be thrifty and hardy from birth.
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 09:29:09 pm »
CHAROLLAIS should do the job :thumbsup:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2011, 09:25:57 am »
We have charollais and texels.  Everything you have said about charollais I would corroberate.  Easy lambing, lively lambs, laid back temperament, put on weight well (without getting over-fat; in fact our butcher thinks they can be too lean), weigh well for their size.  Seriously tender, sweet meat.  :yum: :yum: (It is lean but always succulent.)  Our tups have worked very well and are very tame and easy to manage.  In fact we don't always even pen them to tip them up and do their feet!

The only down side is they have not got much wool, particularly as newborns.  So if you are somewhere where you could have a cold wet lambing, make sure you buy a tup with plenty of wool on his head - his lambs will be a little less bare than those of a bare-headed tup.  And make sure you have those little plastic lamb jackets ready when lambing time comes around.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
    • photos
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2011, 09:56:34 am »
thanks very much indeed Sally its very nice to hear first hand, so how do they compare with texels may I ask? what are the differances? advantages  disadvantages?
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

VSS

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • Pen Llyn
    • Viable Self Sufficiency.co.uk
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 12:16:08 pm »
Another vote for Charollais. When compared to Texel, they are easier lambing, quicker to get up, livelier and will grow like weeds. It's true that they don't have a lot of wool, but unless the conditions are extreme they should be OK, so long as they have got full bellies.
The SHEEP Book for Smallholders
Available from the Good Life Press

www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
    • photos
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 01:07:00 pm »
As we are in the southeast that shouldnt be a problem and as I will lamb them outside in the beginning of April it should be a safe bet,

It looks as if charallais are going to be the ideal tup for me, there are about 40 or 50 in the catalogue for the tup sale at Ashord next friday.

as for the wool it will be very interesting as the mums are romney x so lots of wool :)  its amasing how genetics works as the lambs will generally have the traits of the tup !!

I will let you know how I get on at the market, will be a first for me, and hope I can get a nice one without paying over the top.
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 02:24:07 pm »
how do they compare with texels may I ask? what are the differances? advantages  disadvantages?

Well, we have used both and still have both.

Charollais probably better for easy lambing, although we're trying a Dutch Texel (smaller shoulders, shorter legs) this year so I'll report back on how they compare.

Texel better for lambs having some wool on - which matters up here in the far north west of England!

I think Charollais is a sweeter meat, more succulent and tasty.  Texel is very tender but in our opinion not as tasty.

We sell lambs both to our local butcher and through agents to the supermarkets' abattoirs.  Our butcher prefers Texel, he is happy with the level of fat covering on these and is less comfortable with the very very lean Charollais meat.  The supermarkets' abattoirs grade all our lambs very well; we don't think there is much difference in conformation and therefore the price we get for either.

There's no question the Charollais lambs fatten quicker - be aware they may weigh more than you expect from looking at their size as they are so solid!  If you have plenty of grass and don't feed cake this won't matter so much, but if you use cake to finish lambs and/or feed lactating ewes it will make a difference.  Also, lamb prices tend to drop away later in the season so the earlier they finish the more pence per kilo you should get.  If you're not lambing till April this won't have a huge impact on you, I suspect, but we start lambing in February and will get quite a few lambs away while the prices are still higher.

Our Charollais ewe lambs that we've kept on for breeding have inherited their dad's laid-back temperament - they are very easy to manage.  Texels aren't hard but ours (and their offspring) are definitely less laid back than the Charollais.  (Having said which I did have a very laid-back, friendly Texel on my previous farm, and all his daughters are very friendly too.)

Neither breed has particularly good feet, I'm afraid.  On our cold wet ground we will need to attend to a significant proportion of feet, sadly. 

You might wonder why we continue to use Texels when we clearly rate the Charollais so highly. 

Firstly, we have been able to buy good Texel tups for quite a bit less than we've paid for the Charollais.  I think this is just supply and demand - there are more people breeding Texels as terminal sires and up here there is a lot more choice of perfectly good enough Texel tups than there are Charollais. 

Secondly, we value our local butcher's custom and he prefers Texel.

Thirdly, having had bad experiences with breeding pure in the past, BH finds it best to have all breeding females (cattle included) be no more than 3/4 of the same meat breed.  So, for instance, we have put some of our half-Charollais girls to another Charollais, but now the girls from that mating need a different breed on them.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

janeislay

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • Isle of Islay
    • Ellister Islay Highland Ponies
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 03:35:10 pm »
Just a wee comment: I thought it was the "in thing" to buy British  :D  And even better to buy locally ?

Having used a Lleyn terminal sire these past few years and before that Texels (with awful lambing difficulties outside), I'm now going for less size and more flavour.

I've just eaten a pure Icelandic wether which was absolutely delicious, so this year I'm going to use Icelandic tups on my (Hebridean x Lleyn) x Lleyn ewes, plus my pure Hebridean ewes, plus my Hebridean x Icelandic ewes plus my pure Icelandic ewes.

And in case you ask, Icelandics most likely originated in the Scottish Isles and were taken north  ;D 

Jane in the Hebrides !

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 03:52:38 pm »
Just a wee comment: I thought it was the "in thing" to buy British  :D  And even better to buy locally ?

I wish! 

Despite the schemes some of them have for named breed beef, the supermarkets have no interest in the breed of lamb; they pay on weight, leanness and conformation.  You won't get the top grades and hence top price unless you use continental sires.  We do have to tick a box to say which part of the country the lamb is from, so they'll market ours as 'North of England' lamb. 

Our butcher specialises in traditional breed cattle and buys Highland, Galloway and Blue-grey beef from local producers, but he likes Texel lamb.  We've tried to sell him local breeds but he's not interested - he says it's the same amount of cutting up, more work presenting it to look appealing, less kilos per carcase - so less profit.

We buy locally ourselves; even though we are buying continental breeds of tups we buy locally bred ones where possible.

How do you sell your lamb, Islay Jane?
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
    • photos
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2011, 09:46:56 pm »
sally

thanks so much for giving me the time and the in depth detail you have had the trouble to explain, thanks for the lesson in charallais and texel comparison its been very interesting and priceless info,  hopefully I will be able to get a half decent tup at the market this Friday I will try hard to spot a nice one and hope I can afford it when the bidding starts. :)


andy
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 06:08:23 pm »
Hi i would say Hampshire Down every time but i am crazy about them. They do lamb easy, the tups are quiet and contrary to what everyone thinks, they are not fat and do not produce fat progeny,they also live a long time, rams still working long after other breeds. plus their lambs finish quickly.
( i did say i was partial to them) ;D

Pasture Farm

  • Joined Aug 2011
  • East Lincolnshire
  • Trusty Traca
    • Pasture Poultry
    • Facebook
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 07:55:27 pm »
I too would say Hampshire Down     We use a Hampshire over our Lleyn girls and get a good finish :thumbsup: We're trying him with some Suffolks and Llanwenogs this time    We just like sheep :thumbsup:

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
    • photos
Re: New Terminal Sire?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2011, 08:14:00 pm »
looking at the catalogue for this friday there is now over 180 rams to be sold mainly charallais and texel, 3 blue de maine, and only one oxford down !! So not any Hampshire Downs to look at !!
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS