[onnyview]

I agree with what's been said so far. Only a small percentage of tups should ever be kept for breeding.  They are 50% of your flock and there is no point in keep rubbish as it will only come back to bite you on the bum with sub standard stock.

Rams that are sold for breeding are pure bred, not crosses, so sorry, but send them off.  Look at sheep breeds you want to keep and go for those if you want to. Otherwise, source a quality ram who will provide you with lambs that will be of use to you and change him every few years.

[lee.arron]

castrate them how old are the older 2 it may not be too late big mistake geting atached to them we already have 2 wethers (pet lambs) from last 2 years this year we arnt keeping any all going to market or in the frezer its no good feeding loads of wethers and as tups they would be worth no more tham meat price and probly would end up there anyway there are plenty of cheap pure breed tups so why would you buy a cross breed?
if you are just geting atached to things and wanting to keep then all or home them (you think thats what your doing but  buyer will send them in and make on them) then i sugest you just keep a feild of wethers and dont tup the ewes 

As it is my first year breeding i was just wondering what other people will be doing with their lambs, obviously if i wanted a load of pets then i would keep a field of puppys and kittens , i wont lie you do get attatched to something you have cared for whilst growing inside for the last 5 months however i also understand that a decision has to be made and of course it comes down to money and as i havnt really the experience of the market place am unable to evaluate market forces .  however I have made the decision and continued to castrate any more lambs being born and will be going to market

[onnyview]

Well, all my rams, like yours, will be castrated and sent as fat or store lambs at the end of this year beginning of next. The ewes will be kept back and either sent as fat or run on for breeding. Mine are all pure bred. Hope this helps.

[SteveHants]

Rams that are sold for breeding are pure bred, not crosses, so sorry, but send them off....

Except if you use a SufTex ram, of course... 

I don't keep my rams entire in the hope of producing a saleable tup to be honest, and unless I see one thats exceptional, Id never consider it. However, I'd never buy a tup without his EBV sheet and it wouldn't pay me to have those done just yet, but watch this space, my flock is ever expanding...

[SallyintNorth]

Rams that are sold for breeding are pure bred, not crosses, so sorry, but send them off....

Except if you use a SufTex ram, of course... 

Or Beltex x Texel, or Dutch Texel x Texel, or Beltex x Charollais...  There are some crosses out there that make good tups for certain situations, but in my experience, generally farmers will buy their tups from breeders known for producing good tups and who will stand behind them.  Saving a hundred or two on a tup who will sire at least a hundred lambs a season for each of several years doesn't make commercial sense.

There will be different factors for a smallholder buying a tup - but I would think most of them would want a pure-bred tup, and if it's for only a few sheep then money can be saved by buying an aged tup who cannot be used on his daughters any more.  He'll be worth less in the fat than a lamb or shearling, and many farmers will be more than happy to sell a faithful servant for the fat price if he's going to a good home where he'll work for a few more years.

[OhLaLa]

I only buy in a pure breed ram as my sheep are all pure bred.

Females are kept in the flock, males castrated. One male will be retained this year as a wether, any other males will most likely be store lambs.

 

[Fronhaul]

I kept two entire ram lambs last year.  One I registered and sold to another breeder, the other I am hoping to show this year.  To be frank I spent hours watching and then didn't make my mind up finally until another breeder arrived and unprompted picked out the boy I had been watching as one to keep and register.  And even when the decision is made it is still easy to get things wrong and find you need to harden your heart.  Yesterday I saw a ram lamb on its way to the abbatoir that an experienced breeder had selected and registered only to find that as he matured his movement was incorrect.  You can forgive faults in a ewe that condemn a ram.  By way of example I have one of last years Jacob ewe lambs here.  She is lovely except for a small black spot on one fore leg.  Had she been a ram lamb then that small black spot would probably have been enough for me to decide not to retain her.  The ram really is half the flock.

[SteveHants]

Or Beltex x Texel, or Dutch Texel x Texel, or Beltex x Charollais...  There are some crosses out there that make good tups for certain situations, but in my experience, generally farmers will buy their tups from breeders known for producing good tups and who will stand behind them.  Saving a hundred or two on a tup who will sire at least a hundred lambs a season for each of several years doesn't make commercial sense.

There will be different factors for a smallholder buying a tup - but I would think most of them would want a pure-bred tup, and if it's for only a few sheep then money can be saved by buying an aged tup who cannot be used on his daughters any more.  He'll be worth less in the fat than a lamb or shearling, and many farmers will be more than happy to sell a faithful servant for the fat price if he's going to a good home where he'll work for a few more years.

I know, I know. I was being a touch facetious.....

I'm a sucker for a composite myself and my commercial terminal sire will be a Meatlinc (or possibly a Primera), athough they seem to class a Meatlinc as a breed now.

I certainly bought an old pure tup for my Wiltshire flock - I got him for 200 quid and this year, due to my rapid expansion, he still served 62 ewes no problem.

[SallyintNorth]

Aye, there's many a bargain been had as an aged tup.

I bought a retiring 'stock tup' from the bloke I got my Blue-faced Leicesters from; only £100 (along with a couple of full-priced young tups) as he was thought to be likely to only make one more season.  He did two, and threw some of the best mule ewe lambs we bred.

When we decided to try Charollais on our Texels here, we got an aged tup who would be serving his daughters if he stayed with the man who bred him.  He'd paid over £3,000 for him as a shearling, we got him for £450 and he did two years for us.

And 'twas my neighbour's aged Swaley tup near broke my leg... but that was my own stupid fault, and that tup sired some super ewe lambs.

[landroverroy]

 I would agree with everyone else - sell the male lambs for meat rather than breeding.
 You can sell them straight off the ewes at weaning - aim for @ 12 weeks of age and the prices should still be good. In that case there's no point in castrating as they'll grow faster entire and they won't live long enough to tup their mothers.
Also, there is no difference in price for ram lambs of that age, compared with wethers.

[SallyintNorth]

You can sell them straight off the ewes at weaning - aim for @ 12 weeks of age and the prices should still be good. In that case there's no point in castrating as they'll grow faster entire and they won't live long enough to tup their mothers.

It's true... but some cautionary tales :

• the Swaledale breeder who never castrates his tup lambs as he sells them as stores, and the price is the same whether wether or tup ... so that in 2007, when we had an outbreak of FMD and no-one could move anything except straight to slaughter ... and Swales don't reach slaughter weight until well into the back end... then did he find that his fences were not equal to horny horny little tups!!    (I can laugh - I'm not an immediate neighbour!)
• us, every year, with the early single tup lambs left entire as they'll be away before they can tup their mothers... except there's always one (or more) gets lame, or struck, or some other problem, which means it/they are still around when some of the early girls start coming into season... mind, some of these accidental matings have produced some very good lambs 

Also, there is no difference in price for ram lambs of that age, compared with wethers.

We don't see any difference here in price for ram lambs vs wethers full stop, not even as hoggs.

[Remy]

Up to now I've always castrated my male lambs as they are going to market but not till they are up to weight which is usually six months or so.  As I keep them all together I don't want to risk entire lambs mating their mums!

This year I will be having some pure bred lambs and will have to have a good look at the males to see if any are worth keeping entire, although I'd say it must be a bit difficult to size them up in a week which is the time they should be castrated by  .  I think if I keep any males entire they will have to be outstanding!

[landroverroy]

 But we're not talking about Swaledale, we are talking about Texels which will easily fatten and be away in under 6 months.
 Obviously you have to target your market and act accordingly.
 I am NOT advocating that you leave entire any male lambs destined as stores as, yes, you will get a lot less for them.
 And as for the casualty with broken leg, whatever, well he will go nicely in the freezer.

[JMB]

Hi. Our first time lambing too. They haven't arrived yet but the plan is to eat them.
I know I won't want to but it's a question of space for us.
If we keep the lambs we'll have to send our tup back because we don't want him going with his own daughters, and we don't have the room to keep the tup and the ewes and the lambs all separated.
In the end, it just seems easier to eat the lambs and then all we need to do is keep our tup and ewes apart until November again.
Noit sure if this will help- and it seems obvious- but you need to lok at how much room you have and think about the logistics of managing the flock.
 

[VSS]

We don't see any difference here in price for ram lambs vs wethers full stop, not even as hoggs.

That tend to be the case if you are selling finished lambs, but if you want to sell tup lambs as stores, they tend to get a slightly beeter price entire. A lot of stores, particularly mountain breeds like ours, tend to go on to be finished for the asian market and they don't want them if they are castrated.