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Author Topic: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice  (Read 30225 times)

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2012, 11:51:35 am »
Very sorry to here about your lamb :(.  You MUST pester your vet. You will be paying them enough, so you should be getting a decent service.  Get the lamb down there for a PM today - your problem is urgent.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2012, 12:15:31 pm »
 I'm so sorry to hear about the lamb.

As Foobar says, hassle the vet - this is urgent.

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 07:51:43 pm »
Ouch WV!! Quite right to be firm with us but we honestly had no idea that it could be Coccidiosis until yesterdays replies and the dead lamb this morning. We took our dead lamb plus a live one with symptoms to the vet this morning to do a P.M. and examination. He's taken samples throughout the intestine and a faecal sample and we've dosed everyone with Vecoxan this afternoon just to cover for the (strong) possibility. We have about ninety sheep on 30 acres and we move them regularly to try and avoid these sorts of problems. We've NEVER had this before but we have had scours due to overlush and nutrient poor grass and we assumed this was the same again. We've been told by the vet that by the time the watery scours appear, the disease has a real hold and you can't know it's Cocci until the symptoms show. We know now that the prior grey runs we saw are a sign that Cocci is evident but now we will incorporate Vecoxan as part of our treatment programme as we know once the blasted things have revealed themselves then they will always be there. We honestly couldn't have known this was due to hit us. The conditions have obviously been just perfect for the dormant Cocci to surface.
We take our animal welfare incredibly seriously but you learn often by the heartache. It has happened before and it always hits very hard and hurts alot and we act preventatively afterwards. We've lost only one lamb (through a dreadful accident) and one adult (through not knowing about feeding male sheep differently resulting in urinary calculi) in five years. We have a comprehensive programme of treatment and we'd never knowingly sell our sheep short. We love them as children. What more can I say? We're heartbroken over this. I hope and pray that we can save the majority of our flock if not all.

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 08:19:02 pm »
Pedwardine  :bouquet: . So sorry.


I asked my vet about testing a sample for cocci after reading a thread about it on here. The vet I spoke to seemed to say that they don't test unless there was a problem with scouring etc. as cocci were always present in the gut anyway  ??? . Think I will ask a different vet next time I'm there.


Hope you're on the way to sorting your problem and you don't lose anymore.  :'( 

woollyval

  • Joined Feb 2008
  • Near Bodmin, Cornwall
    • Val Grainger
    • Facebook
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2012, 08:22:53 pm »
 :bouquet: Sorry....didn't mean to be too firm but unfortunately I have seen it all many times and as many folks read these forums its for them as much as you. These things happen and it can be a steep learning curve at times, however being ahead of potential problems and immediately jumping on anything that looks out of the ordinary is a must with sheep. I am lucky as I learnt my trade from some very old shepherds now long dead who always said to watch the flock for 30 mins every day so you know whats normal and whats not and to understock rather than overstock....very good advice! :)
www.valgrainger.co.uk

Overall winner of the Devon Environmental Business Awards 2009

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2012, 08:37:58 pm »
Excellent advice WV. I totally agree. I'm often teased for spending far too much time with my sheep. I know, however that with observation comes wisdom.

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2012, 08:39:51 pm »
Pedwardine  :bouquet: . So sorry.


I asked my vet about testing a sample for cocci after reading a thread about it on here. The vet I spoke to seemed to say that they don't test unless there was a problem with scouring etc. as cocci were always present in the gut anyway  ??? . Think I will ask a different vet next time I'm there.


Hope you're on the way to sorting your problem and you don't lose anymore.  :'(


Er, quite. Its the number of cocci present thats of interest, not their presence or absence.

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2012, 08:55:44 am »
No more deaths to report but a couple of quiet lambs who may just be quiet in character but I'm keeping a careful watch on them. It worries me when they aren't alert and active but sometimes one I worry about at one point in the day is totally different at another point in the day. There's one I haven't witnessed eating in the hospital wing and who won't take creep from me or any other temptation. I have horrible thoughts that the stomach lining is possibly so damaged by the Cocci attack that he may be literally starving to death. This is the little fella we took to the vets though who didn't advise us to put him to sleep even when he did a very runny poo in front of him. Ringing the vet tomorrow for what we should do. Generally speaking everyone seems to be improving and I've seen more healthy little droppings around than previously. Even had some ram lambs playing and butting one another yesterday which is fantastic.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2012, 08:56:38 am »
Sounding hopeful, Pedwardine.   :fc: for you.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2012, 08:59:05 am »
Thanks Sally  :-*

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2012, 03:27:17 pm »
Have you got any of the following about, for that lamb that isn't eating. These are what I got my non-eating goat going again with:

ReadiGrass (freeze dried grass, sold for horses)
Flaked maize / cornflakes
Digestive biscuits
Sultanas
Mixed corn (for chickens)

Leave him a selection and see if he'll try them when you're not there.

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 08:18:36 am »
Brilliant, thanks Jaykay. Just going into the village now so I'll stock up. I thought about mixing some readibrek with complan. Have already put probiotics in the water but wondered about getting some yoghurt too. My other half now has pleurisy just to make life a bit more challenging...

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 12:53:16 pm »
Right guys, it's been a while since I posted. Did yoghurt and sultanas etc, no joy. The vet had the results back from the intestine and faecal samples just yesterday morning. Mild presence of Cocci, medium worm count. He advised we re-worm with a different drench (had done yellow before on the lambs so we went on to clear) There was 'nothing conclusive' in the results but still four lambs lost yesterday. That's six altogether now. We had a boy die in the morning whilst I went to the vets to get steroids and antibiotics. He kind of faded away. Then another boy had what looked like an epileptic fit, frothing at the mouth and rolling his eyes. We asked an experienced friend to come and put him out of his misery, and it really was misery, but he'd died by the time he reached us. It was the most heartbreaking, disturbing thing I've ever witnessed. We had two others, a ewe lamb and a ram lamb who were both getting weaker and kept getting cast and unable to right themselves. We couldn't bear them going the same way in so much distress and confusion so our friend did the decent thing for us. I joined the Fallen Stock Register this morning and Crowdens of Newark are collecting our poor babies tomorrow morning. Decent people and so reasonable at such a sensitive time. Discovered a local knacker has ripped us off in our grief in times past. Bastard. Thanks for the posting on here people about this organisation.
It must have been Coccidiosis, I can't fathom what else could do that much damage. The fitting in the second lamb must have been from lack of blood sugars as appetite was poor. The first boy that died yesterday was one we'd thought we'd made a mistake over in bringing him across to the sick bay. He was cheeky and eating digestives and butting me and nibbling everything. He got quieter as the few days went by. I was up cradling him on Tuesday night, covered up against midges, crying and praying. I realised I couldn't function for all the rest that need me right now if I stayed up all night so reluctantly went to bed and he was still hanging on in the morning when I left for the meds.
I believe the rest of the flock have come through the worst and we've five of the sickest ones still over here who are all now thriving although Flossie is still very watery in her functions. Her belly is nice and big though and she is spritely so we have some hope for her. She's always going to be small and we have to care that bit more for her.
One happy moment came with me literally refusing to let our Dorking cockerel, Mr Muggles die on top of it all yesterday evening. Poor Muggles has digestive problems and every now and then we have to 'unbung' him so to speak. Yesterday was a bad day for him as with all our other stuff going on his unbunging was left far too long. We didn't realise he had neither eaten or drank all day but had just sat under the truck feeling miserable. He's usually good throughout the whole process but it was too much after a very tough day for him. We cleaned him out as we normally do, me holding, OH removing the solid lump of poo from his rear, then we vaseline his out tray and set him outside to produce the backed up stuff in a big explosive smelly way, which he did. then we left him with some food and water to get over the ordeal. When I returned from doing the eggs and corn for the chooks, he was in death throes. I wasn't having it, so I sat him forcibly in 'healthy upright cockerel' position on my knee and told him "NO" alot, stopping his head from exorcist movements. I got some electrolytes down him and held his beak under a dripping tap and then continued with same stance procedure until the 'I'm dying' movements ceased. This morning, he's crowing like a good boy and he's given me a bit of happiness back. That and some cuddles with my lovely flock.  :sunshine:
I feel reluctant to lamb again after all this. It's really been just the pits. There's a kind of relief though in that I know now no more are suffering. I hope we can get past this awful episode and enjoy it all again. If anyone has any questions on the stages we had of the condition, which we weren't aware of at the time but with knowledge under our belts now are, please ask. I don't want anyone else to go through this.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 01:29:35 pm »
Oh, gosh, Pedwardine - what  horrible time you and your lambs have been through.   :bouquet: {{{hugs}}}

It's hard to piece it all together from the postings - I know what it's like : you're going through it, your thoughts about what's happening and happened are changing as things occur, meds are tried, vets and others give advice...  it makes the story hard to follow.  Quite likely for you as well.

But I do get a sense that your vet has not been quite on the ball.  There does seem to have been cocci present, normal / routine wormers do not affect these organisms, and yet the vet was still saying to try another drench, not yellow - it makes me wonder if your vet is a small animal vet, not an agricultural vet.  I maybe am picking it all up wrong, failing to piece it together correctly - but if not, I would strongly advise you to look for a large animal vet before you need one again.

But all that is for later.  For now, you need to grieve, and to enjoy the other animals, and heal.  Our thoughts are with you.   :-* {{{hugs}}}

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Bumblebear

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Norfolk
    • http://southwellski.blogspot.co.uk/
Re: Lambs with watery scours-desperate for advice
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 01:33:10 pm »
So sorry to hear about your losses.   :hug: And so pleased to hear about your mega success iwth your boy  :relief:
As Sally says, time to grieve now and don't forget to allow yourself some relief it's all over, even if it's not the outcome you wished for.

 

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