[jaykay]

There's all this talk on the Shetland forum about how aggressive Shetland tups are, how you should be arranging things so you don't have to go into the field with them to feed them etc. Or even if you should be feeding them 

My two shear would run at me if the alternative was to be caught in a corner. But that just seemed 'sensible' to me, why would any animal not try to escape. And of course they're knee high to a grasshopper, though they can still pack a punch at knee height.

I know I've got a potential issue with my tup lamb, as he was a real pet where he was bred, it turned out after I bought him  He is a little cuteness still, though I am trying to resist scritching him too much - helps when putting raddle on 

But in general, are they especially aggressive? More so than other breeds?

Just wondering if I've swapped myself 100kg bolshy Rough Fell tup for 50kg of nasty Shetland tup?

[lachlanandmarcus]

my old Shetland tup was as mild as they come - wouldnt say boo to a goose. Bless him. RIP Curlywurly.
may be using a Shetland tup on loan for the first timers (Cheviot on the older/experienced ones) this year - seeing him on Weds so will report back on that one!
I dont think they are any more aggressive than any other breed. They can move faster than some breeds tho being smaller and lighter, maybe that makes a difference!

[in the hills]

Don't know about Shetlands, Jaykay, and only have experience of the Soay tup that we loaned last year but he was a feisty lad.    Fine until he got really interested in the girls but then didn't take kindly to anyone venturing into HIS field. Did have to stop the children going in there and never turned my back. He would butt and never took his eyes off you .


Maybe these smaller breeds have big attitudes ..... like small dogs. 

[Anke]

Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...
I am onto my third Shetland tup, all have come from small herds where they were (probably) petted as lambs, one of them was bottle reared. All of them kept order in their male groups, and the only one time I got butted (yes at knee height and it was painful), was when a small tup lamb got into the space between me and the tup while I was dishing out breakfast in the middle of winter...Freddie was aiming at the lamb but lamb was quicker than me
No I don't pet them, especially when I have a bucket with me, and when I think they may be very hungry I will take a crook with me. I don't turn my back to any of my tups (I have texel type ones too). But at no times have I been worried about going into their fields. However as winter goes on I find it easier to have the troughs either inside a hurdle pen or next to the gate, it just means I can fill it without the hassle  of everyone trying to jump into the bucket....and getting run down by a mob of ewes...
And don't even be tempted to believe that as a women they are more agressive with you than they wold be with a male shepherd...

[kumquat]

Don't know about Shetlands, Jaykay, and only have experience of the Soay tup that we loaned last year but he was a feisty lad.     

He came from a dodgy owner though.....


Only one experience of a shetland tup and he was a calm lad..

[SallyintNorth]

jaykay, I can't speak about Shetlands generally but I think your lad is from a nice natured line 

I was visiting Alma as she was putting one of her tups out with his girls; all of us were completely at ease along the lane and in the field with him and his ladies.

I think I am right in saying that that ^ tup was the grandaddy of your one 

[sokel]

Only ever had experiance with 1 shetland tup and he belonged to a friend, He was bottle reared and as tame and friendly as a dog
He was called Douglas and you just called him and he followed so moving him was easy even if he was in with the ewes

[jaykay]

Good to hear, thank you all 

It did all seem a bit hysterical, but what do I know, this is only just into my second year with Shetlands and my second tup, who's still a (cute  ) little fella. Glad to hear he may just grow up from a little softie to a big softie 

[Ina]

Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...
I am onto my third Shetland tup, all have come from small herds where they were (probably) petted as lambs, one of them was bottle reared. All of them kept order in their male groups, and the only one time I got butted (yes at knee height and it was painful), was when a small tup lamb got into the space between me and the tup while I was dishing out breakfast in the middle of winter...Freddie was aiming at the lamb but lamb was quicker than me
No I don't pet them, especially when I have a bucket with me, and when I think they may be very hungry I will take a crook with me. I don't turn my back to any of my tups (I have texel type ones too). But at no times have I been worried about going into their fields. However as winter goes on I find it easier to have the troughs either inside a hurdle pen or next to the gate, it just means I can fill it without the hassle  of everyone trying to jump into the bucket....and getting run down by a mob of ewes...
And don't even be tempted to believe that as a women they are more agressive with you than they wold be with a male shepherd...

Nod, nod... In winter, you don't need a tup to run you down. I remember feeding the ewes from the quadbike - open bag of feed at the back and let it run out - needed some practice to get it down in an even line... But if I'd gone off the bike, they would have had me! And none of them was an aggressive tup.

Strangely enough, I rather find (from previous experience) that males are often more agressive with male handlers; do they "smell" similar hormones to their own and suspect a rival? I'm not making that up. While I was doing my apprenticeship, it was me who caught the bull when he was needed to serve a cow (times were different then, he didn't run with the herd, he and the cows were tethered individually in the shed...) My boss wouldn't actually let me hold him while serving, 'cause he was afraid something might happen and would rather have had it happen to himself (insurance etc), but the bull was definitely calmer with me. And another female apprentice nearby, on a cattle breeder place, was doing most of the handling and showing there, too, for exactly the same reason. I remember in an AI station for pigs back then it was women handling the massive boars... (And they were massive! ) And once, when I was on a walk with my father and and a female friend, he got attacked by a peacock - and that peacock singled out my father and left us two women alone...

Strange, isn't it?

[jaykay]

Yeh, trying to actually get the feed into the troughs while the silly things are trying to climb into the bucket and the trough is an exercise in speed and double-feinting 

Since I'm used to doing it with Rough ewes though, who weighed what I do, are as greedy as anything I've ever met, and who had horns to take pieces out of your legs, this seems relatively mild in comparison.

I had just got used to not having to worry about being in a field with a tup, when all this stuff started. I know they should be advising new sheep keepers to treat tups with respect but the stuff being said is silly.

This was the effect of my Rough Fell tup, so I know to be careful - but these little guys?



PS the kids at school were very impressed with the black eye 

[in the hills]

There are probably rights and wrongs when it comes to handling them but I guess with my very limited experience and from talking to many shepherds up here that they are like any other animal and all different and individual. Some are calm and some are more aggressive. Guess that's common sense. Several farmers have told me that they have needed medical treatment/ physio after incidents with their rams. Some have said they have  had rams that could not be trusted and others have said that they made mistakes such as trying to handle ewes with the tup still in the field. These will be commercials/terminal sires and not primitives.. I was told that you had to respect ANY ram.


Keen to learn as much as possible about the best way to keep my sheep .... ewes and tups. Did speak to Tim Tyne about bossy behaviour in tups. He thought it could be heightened by feeding the tup during winter in with the ewes. I kept them together so he got fed as they did. TimTyne seemed to say that the behaviour would be caused in the main by the ram being on the look out for his food. Going to try a different way of delivering the food this year rather than walking right across the field with him following in eager anticipation.     Haven't quite worked out the logistics yet ...... maybe a helicopter drop 


Would it not follow that primitive tups had a tendency to be a bit "bossier" just as the ewes of these breeds tend to be a bit flightier.    ..... compared to larger breeds/commercials




Cor blimey, Jaykay. That must have hurt  . Cross posted with several people.

[SallyintNorth]

I've told the story before about being mown down by our new Swaledale tup.  All my own fault, being too confident in amongst him and his ewes.  The other Swaley tups knew me and my ways and weren't threatened by it, so I stupidly didn't stop to think that this new-to-us boy wouldn't yet know that I wasn't a threat.

And yes, getting safely to where the food is going to be dished up is a problem.  I was twice floored from behind by a BFL tup, angry that I was leading them to where I wanted them with a bucket of cake, and clever enough to work out how to get that cake onto the ground.    More clever than me, clearly, since he got me the same way twice.    Funny story  - but the fact is my back will never be quite as good as it was 

I guess we farmers tend to use the ubiquitous quad bike as the helicopter - we can deliver ourselves and the cake safely to the middle of the field, and get out of trouble, in a way we couldn't on foot.

Where I have fed tups in the field, I would usually use a bucket not a trough, so you can put the bucket down for him (or hold it for him if the ewes are with him - but take care how you keep the ewes at bay lest he think he needs to protect him : see opening para  ) as soon as he arrives with you.  Trying to keep safe while carrying the cake he wants to the trough you are nowhere near is a recipe for an accident - see second para 

[in the hills]

Kumquat - as we've said, what a star his owner is (still can't find the bowing down icon  ). Going to collect this years tup very soon  .


Interesting SITN. Thank you. It seems our slow trudge down a steep hill, carrying dinner, could well have caused some of our problems as much as protection of his girls. No quad ..... but I have thought of a plan.    Guess a lot of what you might describe as aggression is just natural behaviour (in some cases) made worse by the way we handle certain situations. Oh dear .... much to learn  [size=78%] [/size]

[Foobar]

I bought a new tup this year, and he was fine, until one day he just clipped me behind the knee whilst I was walking across the field with the feed bucket.  I don't know if he was aiming at me or at one of the ram lambs and clipped me my accident, but I didn't stop to ask him as I turned and shouted at him very loudly and chased him around the field a few times.  He hasn't come close since, but I try to make a mental note to myself as I enter any field so as not to get complacent.

[jaykay]

That's what I do Foobar, the second I get the first cheeky 'dunt' from a tup.

Backed up by grabbing hold of his jaw if he's even looking like being cheeky, lifting his head so he's looking straight at me and shouting 'no' at him from pointblank range. It's trained one of my own very naughty tup lambs out of the habit!

I walk with the bucket to the trough, but just from the quad which I take the hay on too. They're all, tup included, so busy running to the trough they don't bother with me.