[scremmit]

Nope.... He's put them on the movement licence but they have no tags....

I don't mind registering them and tagging them myself but would that then mean that, on paper, we have 15 sheep?!

[SallyintNorth]

He should have recorded all the ear tag numbers of all the sheep on the movement license.  You'll have to get him to give you tags for them; I'd get him to come and put them in for you, or at least lend you his ear taggers so that you can do it.  And if you haven't done it before, it would be best to get him to show you how to do it.

All the different makes of tags need different taggers, so unless you are certain that you want to use the same type as he does, don't let him get away with just supplying the tags, make him lend you his taggers so that you can put the tags in their ears.

If all the lambs are for selling or eating, they'll need a single electronic (yellow) tag each.  If you might want to keep any of them on, they'll need two tags, one in each ear, of which one must be the electronic one and the other is non-electronic, with the same number on it.

[Backinwellies]

I don't mind registering them and tagging them myself but would that then mean that, on paper, we have 15 sheep?!

Yes you do have 15 sheep .... and that is what your records should say!

They should not have been moved to you without being double tagged (single eid IS only for direct to slaughter) ... and lamb ear tag numbers should be on movement licence.  I agree with Sally get him to either ear tag them himself or lend you his taggers and give you tags (they must be double tags though don't let him get away with single EID tags) ....  If he is difficult, or makes excuses, suggest to him you might need to clarify the position of what ear tags they should have with DEFRA as you are unsure!

Sally does this situation frustrate you as much as it does me?  This is obviously a commercial farmer (judging by the breeds n crosses) who is not following the law on tagging (and hence traceability) ... and landing a 'newby' in a situation they didn't warrant?.

[Marches Farmer]

3) we need to send off our movement licence. Is this the same as registering our flock, or is this separate paperwork?

The farmer should have given you a paper form (AML1) which you send the white copy of to the address at the bottom and keep the other copies.  If the movement was done online you need to go online and confirm it's taken place.

[shep53]

Sorry you've been put in this situation , the rules are clear  MUST BE TAGGED UPON LEAVING THE HOLDING OF BIRTH   and then all numbers put on the movement license and you then record the tag numbers in your holding register .  I agree approach the farmer for tags and pliers as a first step  , as sally says a single eid tag is ok up until 12mths of age , and yes say that you may ask the authorities for clarification , if he says get lost then  you consider your next move !                        I ve looked at the picture and could be texel x mule by the ear size rather than llyen the middle ewe could be anything , 2 lambs are tex x  and one has bfl ears ..         the lamb on the far right looks undershot but not a clear angle , wont hurt it if for meat but might help put pressure on the farmer if it is and you mention it .

[scremmit]

Well this is all a bit disappointing,  but thank you guys for all your invaluable information.

The farmer WILL be double tagging the lambs ears or I will be asking defra what our next move will be.

What a shame!

I'll keep you all posted, of course.

Learning curve starts on day 1!  Great!

I thought one or two things about the transaction seemed a bit odd, but put it down to my inexperience. At the back of my mind, I knew I'd be coming here!

[Jullienne]

Never mind there is always a first time, we had a terrible time first time we bought sheep. I personally would stay away from a commercial farmer and buy off a quality breeder, someone who is known through a society. You do pay more but it is really worth it and they answer all your questions and are generally very helpful, plus they have all the breeding records they can show you too. I hope you get this sorted out soon and I am sorry it has become like this.

[CarolineJ]

In at the deep end!  Sympathies, I had a similar thing happen - my three ewes came from a couple splitting up and leaving the area, who promised faithfully they would get the tags ordered for me before they moved them to my field...before we leave the area....we'll ring the vet and pay for them and you can pick them up...  Last week, six moths after they arrived with me, I finally got fed up of chasing it and put red replacement tags in all of them.  They never would sign me a movement form (they were only moving 2 fields up within a common grazings area), so I just registered them as being on my land when I signed up with ScotEID, so my numbers are now all correct.

Don't let it put you off, sheep are fab 

[SallyintNorth]

They should not have been moved to you without being double tagged (single eid IS only for direct to slaughter) ... and lamb ear tag numbers should be on movement licence.

I agree, those are the rules that Defra introduced.  However, the single-electronic-tag-up-to-12-months-old-regardless-of-origin is what the marts (up here, at any rate) are operating. 

Insisting on the two tags, one electronic and its non-electronic pair, would be safest - can't go wrong

Sally does this situation frustrate you as much as it does me?  This is obviously a commercial farmer (judging by the breeds n crosses) who is not following the law on tagging (and hence traceability) ... and landing a 'newby' in a situation they didn't warrant?.

Completely.  Infuriating, and unnecessarily putting the newbie at risk.

I do understand how farmers feel about all the rules, I really do.  But it's not helpful or kind, or necessary, to embroil a new sheepkeeper in all of that.

TBH, it also makes me wonder just how sound the ewes are - above and below.

[silkwoodzwartbles]

Congratulations on getting your sheep and what a pain that the farmer has already made things difficult for you! Really hope you're able to get him to come out and double tag the lambs and update the movement form ASAP as it's supposed to be sent off within 3 days of the movement.

Re: your other questions, I'd do the lambs with Heptavac P - they'll need two doses of 2ml, 4-6 weeks apart. The easiest way to do it yourself is to buy a sterimatic injector (I've got one like this: http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/store/products/5ml-semi-disposable-vaccinator) and follow the instructions. It's pretty easy to use, hygienic and you're less likely to stab yourself.

We use Crovect on our lambs to protect them from fly strike which *touch wood* works well.

The movement licence is a different thing to registering the flock, you need to do both.

Hope this helps, and also hope keeping them is easier and more fun than acquiring them has been!

[lesbri]

How annoying for you! This happened to me once as a newby, I was given an orphan lamb and was so pleased with him I didnt realise I needed a movement form and for him to be tagged. Coincidentally just after I acquired him I had a visit from Animal Health! Actually they were very understanding and after I had failed to get said forms and tags from original breeder they tried to contact him on my behalf, also unsuccessfully. Eventually, they told me to tag him as if he was born on my holding but to make a note in my own paperwork to that effect. Enjoy your sheep, they look lovely 

[shotblastuk]

Ah, Don't you just love the commercial sheep farmer!! Minimal effort maximum profit. He will have picked up on your inexperience and worked on that.
I would imagine he's sold you ewes with singles because they're not much good to him if they don't produce twins or more. (this isn't necessarily a bad thing from your point of view ie new to sheep)
One good thing. You are now an experienced sheep buyer and will know next time It has happened to most of us at some point so it's not an exclusive club you're in!!
Before you go down the regular worming route, I suggest at some point getting a FEC (do a web search) as worming unneccesarily can potentially have long term problems. At this time of year preventing fly strike should be your objective.
Good luck with the flock. There will no doubt be some ups and downs. They will take over your life

[BenBhoy]

Unlucky with the ear tags but another POV might be that you should have studied the relevant websites beforehand to get clued up on rules & regs. I'm not saying what he's done is right but to assume anything makes an ass of u and me...

I'm a (part time) commercial farmer and I find it a bit annoying all the anti-commercial comments on this thread. Someone said minimum effort maximum reward??!! Is that a cruel joke??? Surely anyone else even with a handful of sheep knows how difficult & hard work it can be. Now times that by a 1000. And on top of that it has to pay you, and your family. There isn't another income to fall back on. It isn't a hobby.

[Womble]

I don't think we're being anti-commercial farmer, just anti- anybody who sells untagged sheep to a newbie and lands them with a headache. If I'd done that I'd fully expect to get a roasting on here, and surely a commercial farmer should know (even) better.

Re worming, it would be worth speaking to your vet about this (if you don't have one lined up, do so now). Since your pasture is probably clean of worms, you may be able to take action now to stop a worm population from getting established, or at least to slow that down dramatically.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Unlucky with the ear tags but another POV might be that you should have studied the relevant websites beforehand to get clued up on rules & regs. I'm not saying what he's done is right but to assume anything makes an ass of u and me...

I'm a (part time) commercial farmer and I find it a bit annoying all the anti-commercial comments on this thread. Someone said minimum effort maximum reward??!! Is that a cruel joke??? Surely anyone else even with a handful of sheep knows how difficult & hard work it can be. Now times that by a 1000. And on top of that it has to pay you, and your family. There isn't another income to fall back on. It isn't a hobby.

I myself keep a lot of sheep, but it doesn't exscuse someone for selling outside of rules and regs especially to a newbie. We are not critisizing commercial farmers per say, just anyone who sells to newbies, or anyone, going outside rules for their own convenience. I agree with [member=2128]Womble[/member] about the worm thing, always good to see before bringing em on. I hope everything works out well and they do look lovely.