[martcol]

We're moving shortly to our new smallholding. We have about 8 acres total and I want to use about an acre of this as a veg plot, eventually with some polytunnels. The area I am looking at has been grazed up until about a year ago, but is now covered in about 18 inch long grass with a few weeds etc mixed in.

I'd like to get as much as I can dug over this autumn to allow the frost to get at it during the winter. I have no means of ploughing by machine, currently. This is what I am thinking at the moment:

In sections, cut long grass with strimmer/brush cutter.
Mow with petrol lawnmower as short as possible.
Remove turf by hand, and stack The fun part!
Rough dig, section by section.

I'm prepared to buy a rotovator/cultivator if necessary though I'm not sure how effective that will be on virgin ground. The main aim here will be to improve the soil (clay) over a number of years - I'm just making a start at this stage.

Any advice/comments (even, you're mad!) appreciated.

[Fleecewife]

When we first moved here 23 years ago, we had the same thought - start with an acre for veg.  A neighbour who dropped by with a plough offered to turn over some of it, but got carried away and did the whole acre in one go.  We had an ancient Rotie but by the time I'd gone over the whole lot, the weeds were popping up at the beginning, with lots of thistles blown in on the wind.  We have never since got rid of the problems of thistles, docks and nettles, no matter what we try (except chemicals, we don't use those).  I was in my mid 40s then, but still I couldn't work a whole acre by hand.  We had no money so couldn't afford to buy in covers for the ground, or good manure even.
So my advice is to PLAN - think it over very carefully before you start, and have a system organised to cover the earth as you clear it, and to start in your first year with perhaps a quarter of the plot.  For lifting the turf, you can hire a machine over a weekend for a reasonable cost then make your lovely stack of loam.  I do wish I had done that.
The manure we did get turned out to be from cattle treated regularly with persistent wormers, which continued to be active after stacking - we had no compost worms to break down the heap, and even 4 years later it was still standing, and still only had worms at the very edges.
Oh and expect in your first years to have loads of cutworms, which live mainly in permanent pasture.  One way to clear them is apparently to oversow with a crop of mustard.  When the cutworms hatch, they will fly off as Daddy Longlegs, but will not lay their own eggs on your beds, as they prefer pasture.

[martcol]

Some great thoughts, thanks.

I had thought about the turf stripper. I think that will depend on how flat or lumpy the ground is when I finish mowing. I don't want to use chemicals, either, so I'm not expecting miracles. Based on previous experience with smaller plots, I won't see too much improvement for 3-5 years. I think If I can get it dug this autumn, then fill with spuds and beans next year, that should open up the structure. I know weeding will be a constant battle.

[macgro7]

I would either hire a neighbouring farmer with a plough Or buy a large silage type plastic sheet and cover everything for a whole season. All grass and weeds will die out but obviously it takes time.

[martcol]

I think that's a good idea for the next plot I clear. I'd really like to get this dug over or ploughed, as you suggest, to allow the frost to get at it this winter. I suspect most of the work will occur next year, when I've had a few months to think and plan, so this will be very much a trial or learning experience.

[chrismahon]

I'm attempting to kill patches of weeds by covering them with a thick layer of hay- perhaps that would work if you have the patience. The hay is gradually being cut by scythe from the rest of our land.


The idea is to leave it down long enough to kill the weeds then drag it off to another spot, rotorvate, till and then re-seed. Looks a lot better than black sheeting, which in the sunlight here would only last a few months. Hay also lets rainwater water through. Might be a problem with seeds though, which isn't a problem to us as we are only restoring neglected pasture?

[martcol]

Just as a matter of interest, how much success have you had in rotovating the ground once the turf was dead? I'd assumed ground that had been pasture for many years might be a lot of work for a rotovator to really dig deeply into?

[Fleecewife]

We found it difficult to get deep enough with just a rotie, but the plough gets nice and deep, so less likely to have a hard pan under how deep the rotavator goes.

[martcol]

Thanks, I did worry about that. There may be an option to get a local to plough it, but maybe not in time for this winter. Perhaps when I convert the next plot.

[Maysie]

Have you thought about the no-dig approach? 

It will take a bit of planning and some time, but will save an almighty amount of hard graft!!

Take a look at Charles Dowding info on his website and YouTube videos.  No-dig really isn't that complicated and yields the same, if not better cropping rates. 

One acre is a very large area to establish and look after in one go, personally I would start smaller and increase the area available as time/energy allows, to avoid being defeated by the overwhelming scale of what you are taking on.

[arobwk]

Some very informative experiences and advice so far (for which I offer my thanks also).
 
Based on my own experiences, my thoughts are:
 
Ploughing option  - don’t have all your acres ploughed-over at once.  To really benefit from the ploughing, you will need to routinely “maintain” all ploughed areas subsequently to prevent the old pasture and weeds reclaiming their patch.  Too much work if you are not about to use some of those acres!
 
Natural mulching option (e.g. with old rotten hay/silage or compost etc) – I’m not convinced it helps where the under-lying old pasture soil is fully charged with rooted grass/weeds or lots of seed from the same.  Me thinks plant-material mulches only really work well if underlying soil is pretty much seed/weed free prior to application of mulch.
 
Weed sheets:
 
I will include wads of newspaper and cardboard here, but I would suggest the only effective membrane is the plastic variety (woven membrane or a simple black plastic sheet like thicker guage black silage wrap).  But there are so many pros and cons that are not always in balance.  Paper/cardboard – cheap, but doesn’t last very long and is generally nibbled by slugs and snails (although that might mean they are not nibbling your plants quite so much).  Woven plastic (terram) – cost (I'm still struggling to get below £0.40 per sq m).   Plastic sheet -  not porous (although I have used it and punched holes in it and then placed a stone over the holes to help direct rain-water towards)!!  And all “weed sheets” (or mulches for that matter) will give critters like voles and slugs a heaven-sent cover against predators or the elements.
 
Membranes obviously need to be held down = work. Either dig them in around their edges (= real work in old pasture) or weight them down with whatever - I personally have plenty of stones/rocks/boulders (picked-out and piled-up after I had my own old pastures ploughed), but it’s still heavy work and you need lots of weights/stones from my experience of having strong winds whipping membranes (which I had believed were well weighted down) into a curly wind-billowing mess! 
 
You have clearly been though the loop before martcol (on a smaller scale) and I don't wish to try and teach granny, but you will, without doubt, have a fight on your hands with 8ac of old established pasture.  A very small bit at a time then!
 
Personally, I’m increasingly persuaded by, and adopting, the plastic membrane option (of whatever sort), accepting the work (and cost) that can be involved and the fact that there are some down-sides.

 

[Backinwellies]

Arobwk ..... Old carpet works well and doesn't need weighing down

[martcol]

I wasn't clear enough in my op, I can see! I'm not going to convert the whole 8 acres - I would like to plant an orchard, and keep some as meadows which a neighbour will graze. I'm not even planning on turning over 1 acre this winter, just a plot, the size of which will probably be determined by the state of my back! I'm thinking maybe 30m x 10m to start with, to get a feel for the soil, maybe get some rhubarb in, and then, next spring, start the soil improvement process with compost, manure etc. Next year will very much be a test year, watching the moicroclimate, seeing what likes to grow there and what doesn't and so on. I'm also giving myself next summer to erect and learn to use a polytunnel.

Many of you mention covering the grass with carpets and so on - that seems sensible and I'll do as much as I can.

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe I'll resurrect this when we get in, and report on how we get on.

[Fleecewife]

Arobwk ..... Old carpet works well and doesn't need weighing down

Old carpets may work, IF you can find some which are made of totally natural, biodegradable fibres, with no manmade fibres, rubber backing etc.  Wool will eventually rot down which is what you want - it takes several years but it does go.  But where can you get 100% wool carpets?  The ones folk are chucking out so are available for covering the ground, inevitably have artificial fibres and rubber backing.  These disintegrate rather than breaking down into a useable soil.  Weeds will also grow on top of them, expecially mat forming weeds (no pun intended), so trying to drag off a sodden, partially disintegrated carpet certainly prevents you ever wanting to do that again!


We have tried all sorts of mulches.  The best has been a thick layer of manure (can be raw) covered with old hay or straw, but not sprayed with chemicals, then thick cardboard, with as much sellotape as possible removed, covered with an impermeable membrane, held down with old pallets, bits of wood, breeze blocks and whatever else is handy (we don't have any rocks).  Over the course of a year this turns into a wonderful warm rich soil, weedfree and ready to plant into, just by lifting the plastic cover.  We are not happy about plastic use though so we eventually bought a giant tarpaulin at great expense, which can be reused for several years. Terriers love it though for all the mice and so on living under it, so inevitably it has become ripped and chewed in places for weeds to pop up through.

[arobwk]

Arobwk ..... Old carpet works well and doesn't need weighing down

True!  and I am collecting whatever I can find including an old genuine persian rug.  Fleecewife makes some good points though.  I am thinking to use in field corners (which aren't easy to keep under control) and then plant trees through.  Inevitably it will be a hassle clearing the carpet out at some point int'  future.  Somehow I can't see me using the persian rug for that purpose!

For martcol:  your fuller account of intentions noted.  One last thought - something I just started looking into - growing green mulch/ground-cover "crops" on plots you might want to use for horticulture in due course.  Mustard looks promising as a soil fumigant and weed suppressor.